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	<title>Comments on: Climate Fairness/Climate Debt &#8211; Eco Justice for Poorer Nations</title>
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	<description>News &#38; commentary on sustainability, activism, urban planning, politics, and our world.</description>
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		<title>By: Flights cause some of the worst offenses to global warming — Lindsay&#039;s List</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/13/climate-fairness-climate-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-279493</link>
		<dc:creator>Flights cause some of the worst offenses to global warming — Lindsay&#039;s List</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 04:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2850#comment-279493</guid>
		<description>[...] Because our culture is one driven by it&#8217;s myths about and attachment to the notion of supreme individualism, prohibitions on activities that are destructive to the Vital Commons—to our shared use of and need for clean air and a working atmosphere—read as judgmental and invasive. A non-starter politically and rude socially. These &#8220;decisions&#8221; are for the individual alone, or so goes the presumption. That&#8217;s what makes it difficult to negotiate climate issues or make gains on eco-fairness. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Because our culture is one driven by it&#8217;s myths about and attachment to the notion of supreme individualism, prohibitions on activities that are destructive to the Vital Commons—to our shared use of and need for clean air and a working atmosphere—read as judgmental and invasive. A non-starter politically and rude socially. These &#8220;decisions&#8221; are for the individual alone, or so goes the presumption. That&#8217;s what makes it difficult to negotiate climate issues or make gains on eco-fairness. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Emergency Climate Control: Geoengineering Risks : EcoLocalizer</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/13/climate-fairness-climate-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-97919</link>
		<dc:creator>Emergency Climate Control: Geoengineering Risks : EcoLocalizer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 16:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2850#comment-97919</guid>
		<description>[...] The appeal of shortwave, geoengineering rests in its purportedly rapid, remediation impact (although no global experiments have been conducted yet). However, the combined climate impact of GHG increases with a geoengineered reduction in shortwave radiation is not known, and, it is feared, could result in environmental &#8220;winners&#8221; and &#8220;losers&#8221;&#8211;meaning some regions of the planet could experience severe drought, and even increased conflict over water resources. In such a win/lose scenario, wealthier nations&#8211;even those impacted negatively&#8211;will most likely fair better than poorer ones, as these have the  money and resources to compensate for severe agricultural losses. Emergency, geoengineering solutions for climate control will most likely make the emerging issue of &#8220;climate fairness&#8221; and &#8220;climate debt&#8221; more pressing (see my previous blog post Climate Fairness/Climate Debt &#8211; Eco Justice for Poorer Nations. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The appeal of shortwave, geoengineering rests in its purportedly rapid, remediation impact (although no global experiments have been conducted yet). However, the combined climate impact of GHG increases with a geoengineered reduction in shortwave radiation is not known, and, it is feared, could result in environmental &#8220;winners&#8221; and &#8220;losers&#8221;&#8211;meaning some regions of the planet could experience severe drought, and even increased conflict over water resources. In such a win/lose scenario, wealthier nations&#8211;even those impacted negatively&#8211;will most likely fair better than poorer ones, as these have the  money and resources to compensate for severe agricultural losses. Emergency, geoengineering solutions for climate control will most likely make the emerging issue of &#8220;climate fairness&#8221; and &#8220;climate debt&#8221; more pressing (see my previous blog post Climate Fairness/Climate Debt &#8211; Eco Justice for Poorer Nations. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Geoegineering Ethics &#8211; Getting Serious &#38; Humble About Climate Intervention [Video] : Planetsave</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/13/climate-fairness-climate-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-97618</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoegineering Ethics &#8211; Getting Serious &#38; Humble About Climate Intervention [Video] : Planetsave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 03:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2850#comment-97618</guid>
		<description>[...] concerns and others are what buttress public fear and criticism (and there is the emerging issue of Climate Fairness/Debt to compensate for the potential impact). Much of the focus, therefore, was on research guidelines, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] concerns and others are what buttress public fear and criticism (and there is the emerging issue of Climate Fairness/Debt to compensate for the potential impact). Much of the focus, therefore, was on research guidelines, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Ricciardi</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/13/climate-fairness-climate-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-65226</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Ricciardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2850#comment-65226</guid>
		<description>To Mike:

   Actually, that is not so. The &quot;other 92%&quot; --assuming that this means the bulk of humanity that subsists on 3.00 or less per day--do not partake of the technology and products that the top 8% produce--how could they afford it? 

   But even if we knock off 10% or more of that (82%) to account for the rapidly developing nations that are craving Western style living standards (a worrisome trend), they are not necessarily there yet (i.e., at our level of consumption)...the remainder are still stuck in poverty and subsistence living ...it will be a long time before they catch up to us even half way. 

  But you do bring into relief a great myth: that what we produce benefits everyone else. In fact, most of what we produce here gets consumed here (or by our European Allies. Some goes to China and Russia, little, proportionately, to the majority of poorer nations. 

  Further, your statement: &quot;nothing to buy&quot; is astounding! You forget that most of the people in these countries produce their own food, clothing and energy (harvesting local sources of coal and firewood) and could certainly invest in local economic engines (manufacturing, etc.)....and, just maybe there are better things to do with money than buy more things from us that aren&#039;t needed. 

  Even further, reducing our emissions does not in any way equate with having fewer exports (for poorer nations to buy), or, that the things worth buying (by poorer, foreign citizens) are those produced through polluting means. Your argument is fallacious on numerous levels. Responsible consumer habits here have generated an entire industry around green and sustainable products. These poorer folks could buy these latter products, services, and, if needed, energy sources, thus increasing the demand and market for green products.

I would do a bit more study on global economics, trade and productivity...it will be an eye-opening experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Mike:</p>
<p>   Actually, that is not so. The &#8220;other 92%&#8221; &#8211;assuming that this means the bulk of humanity that subsists on 3.00 or less per day&#8211;do not partake of the technology and products that the top 8% produce&#8211;how could they afford it? </p>
<p>   But even if we knock off 10% or more of that (82%) to account for the rapidly developing nations that are craving Western style living standards (a worrisome trend), they are not necessarily there yet (i.e., at our level of consumption)&#8230;the remainder are still stuck in poverty and subsistence living &#8230;it will be a long time before they catch up to us even half way. </p>
<p>  But you do bring into relief a great myth: that what we produce benefits everyone else. In fact, most of what we produce here gets consumed here (or by our European Allies. Some goes to China and Russia, little, proportionately, to the majority of poorer nations. </p>
<p>  Further, your statement: &#8220;nothing to buy&#8221; is astounding! You forget that most of the people in these countries produce their own food, clothing and energy (harvesting local sources of coal and firewood) and could certainly invest in local economic engines (manufacturing, etc.)&#8230;.and, just maybe there are better things to do with money than buy more things from us that aren&#8217;t needed. </p>
<p>  Even further, reducing our emissions does not in any way equate with having fewer exports (for poorer nations to buy), or, that the things worth buying (by poorer, foreign citizens) are those produced through polluting means. Your argument is fallacious on numerous levels. Responsible consumer habits here have generated an entire industry around green and sustainable products. These poorer folks could buy these latter products, services, and, if needed, energy sources, thus increasing the demand and market for green products.</p>
<p>I would do a bit more study on global economics, trade and productivity&#8230;it will be an eye-opening experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Beach</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/13/climate-fairness-climate-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-61608</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Beach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2850#comment-61608</guid>
		<description>True, 8% of people may make 50% of emissions, but those 8% are those creating the modern technology and higher standard of living for the other 92%. If we pay off poorer nations from the pockets of our polluting producers, they may have more money, but there will be nothing for them to buy, and no use for the money save using it as toilet tissue. Instead, we should encourage through free market initiatives the mass production and development of clean air resources for the pleasure of the buyers, which can then be passed on and sold to the poorer countries to produce more goods and grow richer and more sustainable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, 8% of people may make 50% of emissions, but those 8% are those creating the modern technology and higher standard of living for the other 92%. If we pay off poorer nations from the pockets of our polluting producers, they may have more money, but there will be nothing for them to buy, and no use for the money save using it as toilet tissue. Instead, we should encourage through free market initiatives the mass production and development of clean air resources for the pleasure of the buyers, which can then be passed on and sold to the poorer countries to produce more goods and grow richer and more sustainable.</p>
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		<title>By: Emergency Climate Control: Geoengineering Risks : EcoWorldly</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/13/climate-fairness-climate-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-61607</link>
		<dc:creator>Emergency Climate Control: Geoengineering Risks : EcoWorldly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2850#comment-61607</guid>
		<description>[...] The appeal of shortwave, geoengineering rests in its purportedly rapid, remediation impact (although no global experiments have been conducted yet). However, the combined climate impact of GHG increases with a geoengineered reduction in shortwave radiation is not known, and, it is feared, could result in environmental &#8220;winners&#8221; and &#8220;losers&#8221;&#8211;meaning some regions of the planet could experience severe drought, and even increased conflict over water resources. In such a win/lose scenario, wealthier nations&#8211;even those impacted negatively&#8211;will most likely fair better than poorer ones, as these have the military power, money and resources to compensate for severe agricultural losses. Emergency, geoengineering solutions for climate control will most likely make the emerging issue of &#8220;climate fairness&#8221; and &#8220;climate debt&#8221; more pressing (see my previous blog post Climate Fairness/Climate Debt - Eco Justice for Poorer Nations. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The appeal of shortwave, geoengineering rests in its purportedly rapid, remediation impact (although no global experiments have been conducted yet). However, the combined climate impact of GHG increases with a geoengineered reduction in shortwave radiation is not known, and, it is feared, could result in environmental &#8220;winners&#8221; and &#8220;losers&#8221;&#8211;meaning some regions of the planet could experience severe drought, and even increased conflict over water resources. In such a win/lose scenario, wealthier nations&#8211;even those impacted negatively&#8211;will most likely fair better than poorer ones, as these have the military power, money and resources to compensate for severe agricultural losses. Emergency, geoengineering solutions for climate control will most likely make the emerging issue of &#8220;climate fairness&#8221; and &#8220;climate debt&#8221; more pressing (see my previous blog post Climate Fairness/Climate Debt &#8211; Eco Justice for Poorer Nations. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Factor 32 - Calculating the Rate of Consumption : EcoWorldly</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/07/13/climate-fairness-climate-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-61606</link>
		<dc:creator>Factor 32 - Calculating the Rate of Consumption : EcoWorldly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2850#comment-61606</guid>
		<description>[...] These disparities are starting to force policy makers and societies to rethink their beliefs about over-population, climate fairness, and international debt (see my earlier article: Climate Fairness / Climate Debt - Eco-Justice for Poorer Nations) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] These disparities are starting to force policy makers and societies to rethink their beliefs about over-population, climate fairness, and international debt (see my earlier article: Climate Fairness / Climate Debt &#8211; Eco-Justice for Poorer Nations) [...]</p>
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