Comments on: Note to Obama: Promote Carbon Cap and Trade Efforts at the Summit of the Americas http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/04/15/note-to-obama-promote-carbon-cap-and-trade-efforts-at-the-summit-of-the-americas/ News & commentary on sustainability, activism, urban planning, politics, and our world. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:54:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: BenDoubleCrossed http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/04/15/note-to-obama-promote-carbon-cap-and-trade-efforts-at-the-summit-of-the-americas/comment-page-1/#comment-59738 BenDoubleCrossed Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:25:29 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2793#comment-59738 The Concept of CO2 Cap and Trade is Absurd The real reason Cap & Trade is being foisted on the world is it creates a 3 trillion dollar commodity market for you guessed it: hot air. Finally politicians have found a way to put a price on their most abundant resource! And for politicians there is no downside as nothing has to be actually produced. The real beneficiaries are the rich special interest who will get wealthier setting up and trading in this new commodities market. But citizens will pay more taxes to operate new regulatory bureaucracies and more for goods as business passes the cost along. And all this is based on the premise that operating automobiles is resulting in global warming. Question: did Fred Flintstones truck fleet cause the last period of global warming or is global warming a cyclical event that is more affected by sun spot cycles. The Earth has had multiple tropical and glacial ages over the millennia. The most recent news is that the oceans of the world will be cooling for the next 25-30 years. Furthermore, it is my understanding that the most prevalent hot house gas is water vapor. Should citizens of earth try to stop the rain cycle? And if we are going to implement Cap and Trade who will decide what the optimal CO2 carrying capacity of Earth is? And there are questions about how to implement financial controls and reliably audit such a system. Will every person and business on the planet be issued C02 permits? Is the permit an asset a business can liquidate when it goes out of business? If a business in California goes out of business and sells its CO2 permit to a company in England, will a new company in California have to find another seller to open his business and replace lost jobs? After all, if there is an optimal CO2 carrying capacity then an increasing population of people and businesses means a lower standard of living and reduced CO2 allotment for each new person or business. Upon their death can Mom and Dad leave their CO2 permits to their children? Should Mom and Dad be limited to having two children? What about the countries that do not subscribe to Cap & Trade. Will multi-national companies export new construction and jobs to 3rd world non-subscribing countries? And the flipside, will the people of the Amazon miss out on new opportunities because an American company bought 1000s of acres to be left unused to acquire carbon sequestration credits. The Concept of CO2 Cap and Trade is Absurd

The real reason Cap & Trade is being foisted on the world is it creates a 3 trillion dollar commodity market for you guessed it: hot air. Finally politicians have found a way to put a price on their most abundant resource! And for politicians there is no downside as nothing has to be actually produced.

The real beneficiaries are the rich special interest who will get wealthier setting up and trading in this new commodities market. But citizens will pay more taxes to operate new regulatory bureaucracies and more for goods as business passes the cost along.

And all this is based on the premise that operating automobiles is resulting in global warming. Question: did Fred Flintstones truck fleet cause the last period of global warming or is global warming a cyclical event that is more affected by sun spot cycles. The Earth has had multiple tropical and glacial ages over the millennia. The most recent news is that the oceans of the world will be cooling for the next 25-30 years.

Furthermore, it is my understanding that the most prevalent hot house gas is water vapor. Should citizens of earth try to stop the rain cycle?

And if we are going to implement Cap and Trade who will decide what the optimal CO2 carrying capacity of Earth is?

And there are questions about how to implement financial controls and reliably audit such a system. Will every person and business on the planet be issued C02 permits? Is the permit an asset a business can liquidate when it goes out of business? If a business in California goes out of business and sells its CO2 permit to a company in England, will a new company in California have to find another seller to open his business and replace lost jobs? After all, if there is an optimal CO2 carrying capacity then an increasing population of people and businesses means a lower standard of living and reduced CO2 allotment for each new person or business.

Upon their death can Mom and Dad leave their CO2 permits to their children? Should Mom and Dad be limited to having two children?

What about the countries that do not subscribe to Cap & Trade. Will multi-national companies export new construction and jobs to 3rd world non-subscribing countries? And the flipside, will the people of the Amazon miss out on new opportunities because an American company bought 1000s of acres to be left unused to acquire carbon sequestration credits.

]]> By: Obama Proposes Energy Climate Partnership at Summit of the Americas | ecopolitology http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/04/15/note-to-obama-promote-carbon-cap-and-trade-efforts-at-the-summit-of-the-americas/comment-page-1/#comment-59739 Obama Proposes Energy Climate Partnership at Summit of the Americas | ecopolitology Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:38:08 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2793#comment-59739 [...] Last week before the Summit of the Americas, I wrote about how U.S. President Barack Obama should use the opportunity to promote a hemisphere wide carbon cap and trade partnership effort. [...] [...] Last week before the Summit of the Americas, I wrote about how U.S. President Barack Obama should use the opportunity to promote a hemisphere wide carbon cap and trade partnership effort. [...]

]]> By: CTF http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/04/15/note-to-obama-promote-carbon-cap-and-trade-efforts-at-the-summit-of-the-americas/comment-page-1/#comment-59740 CTF Thu, 16 Apr 2009 11:23:09 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2793#comment-59740 I agree with Friedman that a revenue-neutral carbon tax (or better yet, a carbon tax shift approach) will end up being more politically feasible than a cap and trade. Cap and trade has already taken on so much baggage that I don't think it's tenable with Rust Belt Dems or with Republicans of any stripe. A carbon tax, on the other hand, is being supported by leading scientists, economists and opinion leaders and is something that far-left and far-right pols can get behind. I agree with Friedman that a revenue-neutral carbon tax (or better yet, a carbon tax shift approach) will end up being more politically feasible than a cap and trade. Cap and trade has already taken on so much baggage that I don’t think it’s tenable with Rust Belt Dems or with Republicans of any stripe. A carbon tax, on the other hand, is being supported by leading scientists, economists and opinion leaders and is something that far-left and far-right pols can get behind.

]]> By: russ http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/04/15/note-to-obama-promote-carbon-cap-and-trade-efforts-at-the-summit-of-the-americas/comment-page-1/#comment-59737 russ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:27:25 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2793#comment-59737 For the last 30 years I have lived outside the US - first working and now retired. I never said there were not many good people as I know there are. Don't compare the level of corruption in the US & Europe with the developing world. It is like comparing the president's bowling with that of a pro. A problem in India is that many customs officers buy (meaning pay for a transfer to) their job at major ports of entry. Sure the government tries to stop it but not very hard - catch a few crooks and declare the problem stopped it the usual policy. A industry can be certified as compliant with environmental rules while making a total and complete mess - one I worked for did just that. With carefully selection for the location of monitor devices nothing bad will be found. The inspectors are not going to raise many questions if they are happy. I have seen and lived this kind of problems first hand - in those countries. For the last 30 years I have lived outside the US – first working and now retired.

I never said there were not many good people as I know there are.

Don’t compare the level of corruption in the US & Europe with the developing world. It is like comparing the president’s bowling with that of a pro.

A problem in India is that many customs officers buy (meaning pay for a transfer to) their job at major ports of entry. Sure the government tries to stop it but not very hard – catch a few crooks and declare the problem stopped it the usual policy.

A industry can be certified as compliant with environmental rules while making a total and complete mess – one I worked for did just that. With carefully selection for the location of monitor devices nothing bad will be found. The inspectors are not going to raise many questions if they are happy.

I have seen and lived this kind of problems first hand – in those countries.

]]> By: Levi Novey http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/04/15/note-to-obama-promote-carbon-cap-and-trade-efforts-at-the-summit-of-the-americas/comment-page-1/#comment-59736 Levi Novey Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:25:13 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2793#comment-59736 Russ, have you lived in a developing country? Sure, there is corruption, just as there is in developed countries like the U.S. There are also many, many good people who work for a better future for their fellow citizens. Russ, have you lived in a developing country? Sure, there is corruption, just as there is in developed countries like the U.S. There are also many, many good people who work for a better future for their fellow citizens.

]]> By: russ http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/04/15/note-to-obama-promote-carbon-cap-and-trade-efforts-at-the-summit-of-the-americas/comment-page-1/#comment-59735 russ Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:00:09 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=2793#comment-59735 Anyone thinking that the third world countries will take cap n trade money and do anything with it are very unaware of how it works in most of these countries. You can get government officers to allow most anything. Get your document stamped, sealed and approved for money (a few bucks some places and more bucks others) and then go right ahead doing whatever it was you were to start with. In India & China carbon trading is considered like milking the neighbors cow - wonderful & free money. Anyone thinking that the third world countries will take cap n trade money and do anything with it are very unaware of how it works in most of these countries.

You can get government officers to allow most anything. Get your document stamped, sealed and approved for money (a few bucks some places and more bucks others) and then go right ahead doing whatever it was you were to start with.

In India & China carbon trading is considered like milking the neighbors cow – wonderful & free money.

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