Comments on: Argentina Will Produce Massive Wind Power Turbines http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/ News & commentary on sustainability, activism, urban planning, politics, and our world. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:32:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: DIY Homemade Energy http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-65093 DIY Homemade Energy Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:08:44 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-65093 I tell to all that all countries try to come forward to give some good hands to Argentina for their great work. I tell to all that all countries try to come forward to give some good hands to Argentina for their great work.

]]> By: Gerard Vaughan http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-57080 Gerard Vaughan Sat, 23 May 2009 17:20:09 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-57080 When it comes to getting energy from the wind, "Massive Turbines" are NOT the answer. This is because - (please bear with me, this is so obvious it may appear "stupid" - it Isn't - trust me) an Alternator is also required. So ? - well Turbines and Alternators just happen to have Opposite "Economies of Size". I.e. One T to replace 4 of half the diameter will require 8 times the quantity of materials to build. The cost per m^2 of weather faced is therefore doubled by doublng the size. Meanwhile, One Big Alternator to replace the four of 1/4 the thro'put, costs only about Twice as much in my experience. So Doubling the size of the "TADevices" halves the A-bill. The total cost is of course n times (T + A) Wads and can be seen to be lowest when T costs about the same as A. 1 Wad for instance. Cost of TAD 2 Wads ? If we double the size to replace 4, then the cost goes from 4 x (1+1) or 8 Wads to 1 x (8 +2) Wads This is a 25% increase. If you could do this again - you would of course have to start with 16 TADs - you see that the cost hikes to 2 and 1/8 times the minimum price. Likewise of course if you replace One TAD of the "best size" (i.e. cost = 1 + 1 Wads) with 4 of half the diameter, then 16 of 1/4 the diameter. After some 20 years of solo "R&D" in this field, I find that the costs are about equal at a diameter of around just under One Metre !! A very sensible design - which involves far more than meets the eye - and of around this size, can deliver around 5% p.a. of its cost in sites where current (80m high) "technology" returns around 0.13% - Official figure from Public meeting, Llandeilo, uk, July 2005. The disparity between these figures is accounted-for - very well - by this "E of S" fact, and the operating mode of current designs which wastes high winds. Very glad to hear from anyone on this. G. Gilbert Vaughan Celo Nikiup, Veliko Turnovo, Bulgaria bert.windon@gmail.com When it comes to getting energy from the wind, “Massive Turbines” are NOT the answer. This is because – (please bear with me, this is so obvious it may appear “stupid” – it Isn’t – trust me) an Alternator is also required. So ? – well Turbines and Alternators just happen to have Opposite “Economies of Size”. I.e. One T to replace 4 of half the diameter will require 8 times the quantity of materials to build. The cost per m^2 of weather faced is therefore doubled by doublng the size.
Meanwhile, One Big Alternator to replace the four of 1/4 the thro’put, costs only about Twice as much in my experience. So Doubling the size of the “TADevices” halves the A-bill.
The total cost is of course n times (T + A) Wads
and can be seen to be lowest when T costs about the same as A. 1 Wad for instance. Cost of TAD 2 Wads ?
If we double the size to replace 4, then the cost goes from 4 x (1+1) or 8 Wads to 1 x (8 +2) Wads
This is a 25% increase. If you could do this again – you would of course have to start with 16 TADs – you see that the cost hikes to 2 and 1/8 times the minimum price. Likewise of course if you replace One TAD of the “best size” (i.e. cost = 1 + 1 Wads) with 4 of half the diameter, then 16 of 1/4 the diameter.
After some 20 years of solo “R&D” in this field, I find that the costs are about equal at a diameter of around just under One Metre !!
A very sensible design – which involves far more than meets the eye – and of around this size, can deliver around 5% p.a. of its cost in sites where current (80m high) “technology” returns around 0.13% – Official figure from Public meeting, Llandeilo, uk, July 2005.
The disparity between these figures is accounted-for – very well – by this “E of S” fact, and the operating mode of current designs which wastes high winds.
Very glad to hear from anyone on this.
G. Gilbert Vaughan
Celo Nikiup, Veliko Turnovo, Bulgaria
bert.windon@gmail.com

]]> By: John http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-57076 John Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:37:34 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-57076 Bill, in Minnesota there is legislation in place that allows for community based energy development especially with regards to wind. It is pretty popular and Nebraska subsequently wrote and passed legislation that mirrors Minnesota's. CBED, as it is called in MN.(for community based energy development) has been around for a long time. Basically what CBED does is allow for investment and ownership opportunities on fairly large projects. The average size CBED project is 20 MW's in MN but there are some proposed that are in the 300 MW range. At a couple million dollars a MW installed this is significant investment opportunities which keeps more of the money generated from being exported out of the state. To others making statements regarding line loss and value relative to being able to dispatch wind. Although you obviously can't dispatch wind, when wind projects are constructed over large geographical areas the capacity value of wind increases because of the ever changing wind speeds due to weather patterns over large geographical areas. And the other point that was made regarding line loss. One of the beauties of wind is that there is an inherent value in being able to construct these projects relatively close to load. The ability to disperse wind in this manner has a lot of value relative to the transmission system. Minnesota has done studies that have indicated that huge investments in transmission infrastucture may be mitigated if more of a dispersed approach to constructing wind was taken. Bill, in Minnesota there is legislation in place that allows for community based energy development especially with regards to wind. It is pretty popular and Nebraska subsequently wrote and passed legislation that mirrors Minnesota’s. CBED, as it is called in MN.(for community based energy development) has been around for a long time. Basically what CBED does is allow for investment and ownership opportunities on fairly large projects. The average size CBED project is 20 MW’s in MN but there are some proposed that are in the 300 MW range. At a couple million dollars a MW installed this is significant investment opportunities which keeps more of the money generated from being exported out of the state.

To others making statements regarding line loss and value relative to being able to dispatch wind. Although you obviously can’t dispatch wind, when wind projects are constructed over large geographical areas the capacity value of wind increases because of the ever changing wind speeds due to weather patterns over large geographical areas.

And the other point that was made regarding line loss. One of the beauties of wind is that there is an inherent value in being able to construct these projects relatively close to load. The ability to disperse wind in this manner has a lot of value relative to the transmission system. Minnesota has done studies that have indicated that huge investments in transmission infrastucture may be mitigated if more of a dispersed approach to constructing wind was taken.

]]> By: Researchers from Spain and Nicaragua Invent Machine That Pasteurizes Milk With Solar Energy : EcoWorldly http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-57079 Researchers from Spain and Nicaragua Invent Machine That Pasteurizes Milk With Solar Energy : EcoWorldly Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:21:42 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-57079 [...] Argentina Will Produce Massive Wind Power Turbines [...] [...] Argentina Will Produce Massive Wind Power Turbines [...]

]]> By: Sam http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-57078 Sam Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:19:40 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-57078 Yes, just imagine everyone building one of those on their rooftops :-) Yes, just imagine everyone building one of those on their rooftops :-)

]]> By: Dennis Spain http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-57077 Dennis Spain Tue, 15 Jul 2008 06:22:57 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-57077 Spain has just installed a large thermo-solar plant that concentrates solar energy into a block of salt, which stores the energy for later use to generate steam for conventional turbines. Sounds like a promising solution. Spain has just installed a large thermo-solar plant that concentrates solar energy into a block of salt, which stores the energy for later use to generate steam for conventional turbines. Sounds like a promising solution.

]]> By: kate http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-57075 kate Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:20:58 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-57075 I'm all for the personal wind generator. On the roof hooked to the grid and presto. Maybe some day NYC would power Albany! I’m all for the personal wind generator. On the roof hooked to the grid and presto. Maybe some day NYC would power Albany!

]]> By: Frances http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-57074 Frances Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:03:13 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-57074 <i>Standard size of wind turbines over here in Germany is about 3 Megawatts now.. they’re working on a 6 MW plant. Biggest problem seems to be the length of the blades - cannot be transported on any road.. have to create two parts..</i> Correct. Enercon E-112 Until end of 2007 a total of 9 units has been installed, the last ones with 6 MW rated power, 114 m rotor diameter and up to 124 m hub height. Currently the first units of the E-112 successor, the E-126 with 127 m rotor diameter and 135 m hub height are installed at various sites in Germany. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enercon World’s Largest Wind Turbine (7+ Megawatts) The world’s largest wind turbine is now the Enercon E-126. This turbine has a rotor diameter of 126 meters (413 feet). The E-126 is a more sophisticated version of the E-112, formerly the world’s largest wind turbine and rated at 6 megawatts. This new turbine is officially rated at 6 megawatts too, but will most likely produce 7+ megawatts (or 20 million kilowatt hours per year). http://www.metaefficient.com/news/new-record-worlds-largest-wind-turbine-7-megawatts.html Standard size of wind turbines over here in Germany is about 3 Megawatts now.. they’re working on a 6 MW plant. Biggest problem seems to be the length of the blades – cannot be transported on any road.. have to create two parts..

Correct.

Enercon E-112
Until end of 2007 a total of 9 units has been installed, the last ones with 6 MW rated power, 114 m rotor diameter and up to 124 m hub height. Currently the first units of the E-112 successor, the E-126 with 127 m rotor diameter and 135 m hub height are installed at various sites in Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enercon

World’s Largest Wind Turbine (7+ Megawatts)
The world’s largest wind turbine is now the Enercon E-126. This turbine has a rotor diameter of 126 meters (413 feet). The E-126 is a more sophisticated version of the E-112, formerly the world’s largest wind turbine and rated at 6 megawatts. This new turbine is officially rated at 6 megawatts too, but will most likely produce 7+ megawatts (or 20 million kilowatt hours per year).
http://www.metaefficient.com/news/new-record-worlds-largest-wind-turbine-7-megawatts.html

]]> By: Bill http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-57073 Bill Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:40:17 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-57073 If there was a way to purchase these by individuals with a payment plan or gov't assistance to make them affordable, I would definitely buy 1. We have an average breeze every day, all day of 8-12 mph. But then again, it's a unique area. If there was a way to purchase these by individuals with a payment plan or gov’t assistance to make them affordable, I would definitely buy 1. We have an average breeze every day, all day of 8-12 mph. But then again, it’s a unique area.

]]> By: Carlos http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/07/10/argentina-will-produce-massive-wind-power-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-57072 Carlos Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:16:11 +0000 http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1278#comment-57072 15 millions dollars....lol 15 millions dollars….lol

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