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	<title>Comments on: Cyclists and Pedestrians &#8211; An Uneasy Mix</title>
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	<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/</link>
	<description>News &#38; commentary on sustainability, activism, urban planning, politics, and our world.</description>
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		<title>By: cynicroute</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-126153</link>
		<dc:creator>cynicroute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1080#comment-126153</guid>
		<description>Average adult weight: 150 lbs
Average adult weight, plus bike: 180 lbs
Average automobile weight: 2800 lbs

Politics and policy aside, cyclists are foot-powered and therefore pedestrian; as such, they belong on sidewalks and pathways with walkers and runners - not on streets and roadways. The collision between a walker and a cyclist is far less injurious than the collision between a cyclist and an automobile. The cyclist in me avoids streets as much as possbile out of personal safety and common sense. The driver in me is frustrated by the cyclists that think they&#039;re motorbikes and monopolise roadways. I know it was once fun to put a baseball card in your spokes and pretend, but let&#039;s grow up here. Then there is the group that follows pedestrian rules when convenient, and road rules the rest of the time.

The bottom line is that automobiles are not going anywhere anytime soon. Being self-righteous about cycling does not entitle one to disrupting traffic. Traffic congestion in major centres is bad enough without being speed-limited by the one cyclist pretending to be Streethawk. Vrrrm Vrrrrm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Average adult weight: 150 lbs<br />
Average adult weight, plus bike: 180 lbs<br />
Average automobile weight: 2800 lbs</p>
<p>Politics and policy aside, cyclists are foot-powered and therefore pedestrian; as such, they belong on sidewalks and pathways with walkers and runners &#8211; not on streets and roadways. The collision between a walker and a cyclist is far less injurious than the collision between a cyclist and an automobile. The cyclist in me avoids streets as much as possbile out of personal safety and common sense. The driver in me is frustrated by the cyclists that think they&#8217;re motorbikes and monopolise roadways. I know it was once fun to put a baseball card in your spokes and pretend, but let&#8217;s grow up here. Then there is the group that follows pedestrian rules when convenient, and road rules the rest of the time.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that automobiles are not going anywhere anytime soon. Being self-righteous about cycling does not entitle one to disrupting traffic. Traffic congestion in major centres is bad enough without being speed-limited by the one cyclist pretending to be Streethawk. Vrrrm Vrrrrm.</p>
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		<title>By: 10Reasons why Bicycles are the most popular in the world Today also</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-55538</link>
		<dc:creator>10Reasons why Bicycles are the most popular in the world Today also</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1080#comment-55538</guid>
		<description>[...] 7. Bicycles are efficient vehicles. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 7. Bicycles are efficient vehicles. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Hudson</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-55537</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Hudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 03:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1080#comment-55537</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a fan of what they&#039;re doing in NY: changing the orientation of the some streets by removing one lane of traffic and having cars park at the edge of where that lane used to be. Then, the parked cars act as a buffer for cyclists and there&#039;s an automatic bicycle lane without cost to the pedestrians.

BTW, I absolutely agree that cyclists should be respectful of pedestrians. After all, pedestrians aren&#039;t drivers, which is nice. :) In many places, it&#039;s actually illegal to bike on the sidewalk. The reason? Bicycles are a vehicle and follow the same rules of the road as any other vehicle. This gives them (us) both protection and responsibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a fan of what they&#8217;re doing in NY: changing the orientation of the some streets by removing one lane of traffic and having cars park at the edge of where that lane used to be. Then, the parked cars act as a buffer for cyclists and there&#8217;s an automatic bicycle lane without cost to the pedestrians.</p>
<p>BTW, I absolutely agree that cyclists should be respectful of pedestrians. After all, pedestrians aren&#8217;t drivers, which is nice. <img src='http://c1ecolocalizercom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  In many places, it&#8217;s actually illegal to bike on the sidewalk. The reason? Bicycles are a vehicle and follow the same rules of the road as any other vehicle. This gives them (us) both protection and responsibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Seall</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-55531</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Seall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1080#comment-55531</guid>
		<description>Matt,

That&#039;s what I was looking for - some practical design solutions to the problem.

The issue here is that part of the sidewalk (pavement) is used for the cycle lane, not part of the road, so cyclists constantly switch from cycle lane to pedestrian area like a bunch of certified lunatics.

Matt, since you live in London you might as well face it that you are going to end up with something equivalent to cycle speed-cameras anyway... :-)

Mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I was looking for &#8211; some practical design solutions to the problem.</p>
<p>The issue here is that part of the sidewalk (pavement) is used for the cycle lane, not part of the road, so cyclists constantly switch from cycle lane to pedestrian area like a bunch of certified lunatics.</p>
<p>Matt, since you live in London you might as well face it that you are going to end up with something equivalent to cycle speed-cameras anyway&#8230; <img src='http://c1ecolocalizercom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Mark.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-55532</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1080#comment-55532</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a good line in the film &#039;Men in Black&#039; - &quot;a person is a calm, rational being; people are dumb, panicky animals&quot;... No matter how many signs, laws, markings you put up, there are always going to be problems and accidents when more than one person is doing anything.

Since I don&#039;t like to be completely unconstructive: urban design is key to solving the problem. Burntwood Lane in south London has some really good road/cycle lane design ... pics on page 117 of this if anyone&#039;s interested (7mb) http://www.londoncyclenetwork.org.uk/uploaded_files/LCN_Design_Manual.pdf.

One thing that would make it better is curving the curbs, and putting a curved curb between the cycle lane and the road. That way, the cyclist has more freedom to move easily and swiftly between the three (which we will continue to do with or without them, we&#039;d just be at less risk) and cars will be dicouraged from intruding on cycle lanes - which impatient drivers do all the time when the car in front is turning right - and they may also then go slower.

@ Mark, if you get speed cameras put up in the bike lanes I use, I&#039;m personally going to come over there and make you feel a lot worse than either of those accidents ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a good line in the film &#8216;Men in Black&#8217; &#8211; &#8220;a person is a calm, rational being; people are dumb, panicky animals&#8221;&#8230; No matter how many signs, laws, markings you put up, there are always going to be problems and accidents when more than one person is doing anything.</p>
<p>Since I don&#8217;t like to be completely unconstructive: urban design is key to solving the problem. Burntwood Lane in south London has some really good road/cycle lane design &#8230; pics on page 117 of this if anyone&#8217;s interested (7mb) <a href="http://www.londoncyclenetwork.org.uk/uploaded_files/LCN_Design_Manual.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.londoncyclenetwork.org.uk/uploaded_files/LCN_Design_Manual.pdf</a>.</p>
<p>One thing that would make it better is curving the curbs, and putting a curved curb between the cycle lane and the road. That way, the cyclist has more freedom to move easily and swiftly between the three (which we will continue to do with or without them, we&#8217;d just be at less risk) and cars will be dicouraged from intruding on cycle lanes &#8211; which impatient drivers do all the time when the car in front is turning right &#8211; and they may also then go slower.</p>
<p>@ Mark, if you get speed cameras put up in the bike lanes I use, I&#8217;m personally going to come over there and make you feel a lot worse than either of those accidents <img src='http://c1ecolocalizercom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-55533</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1080#comment-55533</guid>
		<description>I know that when I was growing up in Holland, there were rules against cyclists using the sidewalk. As far as I know, that&#039;s still the case, and it&#039;s a good rule to have. Cyclists should be riding on the road. The real problem is making the roads safe enough for cyclists, by creating designated bike lanes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that when I was growing up in Holland, there were rules against cyclists using the sidewalk. As far as I know, that&#8217;s still the case, and it&#8217;s a good rule to have. Cyclists should be riding on the road. The real problem is making the roads safe enough for cyclists, by creating designated bike lanes.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Seall</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-55534</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Seall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1080#comment-55534</guid>
		<description>@Brandon - the problem is that cycle lanes can&#039;t really increase any further without either taking cars completely off major city streets (not practical in the short term), or taking away even more pedestrian space - things are filling up. Most streets here have cycle lanes, but cyclists don&#039;t stick to them.

Interestingly also, cyclists here must be insured and display a small insurance plate somewhere on their bike.

I agree with you on ticketing, but are you suggesting we concrete over more of the city to make more pavement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brandon &#8211; the problem is that cycle lanes can&#8217;t really increase any further without either taking cars completely off major city streets (not practical in the short term), or taking away even more pedestrian space &#8211; things are filling up. Most streets here have cycle lanes, but cyclists don&#8217;t stick to them.</p>
<p>Interestingly also, cyclists here must be insured and display a small insurance plate somewhere on their bike.</p>
<p>I agree with you on ticketing, but are you suggesting we concrete over more of the city to make more pavement?</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Hudson</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-55535</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Hudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1080#comment-55535</guid>
		<description>@Brandon: Here here! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brandon: Here here! <img src='http://c1ecolocalizercom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/06/09/cyclists-pedestrians-an-uneasy-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-55536</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 19:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecoworldly.com/?p=1080#comment-55536</guid>
		<description>So is the assumption here that as bicycle use increases, the availability of biking options (i.e. more or wider bike lanes) does not increase?  If that&#039;s true, then yes, pedestrians, and jogger strollers, beware.  If not, then I think that it comes down to licensing cyclists and making sure that they go through some basic street etiquette education.

If you ride reckless, you get a ticket.  Seems simple enough.

Or we can push via legislation that roadways need to make room for cyclists.  Let&#039;s make more pavement!  ;)

Cheers,
-Brandon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is the assumption here that as bicycle use increases, the availability of biking options (i.e. more or wider bike lanes) does not increase?  If that&#8217;s true, then yes, pedestrians, and jogger strollers, beware.  If not, then I think that it comes down to licensing cyclists and making sure that they go through some basic street etiquette education.</p>
<p>If you ride reckless, you get a ticket.  Seems simple enough.</p>
<p>Or we can push via legislation that roadways need to make room for cyclists.  Let&#8217;s make more pavement!  <img src='http://c1ecolocalizercom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
-Brandon</p>
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